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IYOUWE Universe
IYOUWE Universe
Buster Williams
What's up everybody? Lenny white here and I want to welcome you to the iue universe podcast on this podcast. I want to invite you to listen, listening to join me and my guests as we discuss music, arts, science, some amazing personal journeys and everything in between. For nearly six decades, master bassist, Buster Williams has been one of the few iconic mainstays of the jazz heritage is unmistakable sound, a prolific artist and composers whose music knows no limits. His services have been requested by such jazz giants. Sarah Vaughan, Nancy Wilson, miles Davis, like many goes, Herbie Hancock count basis along with so many others. It would take the whole podcast, just the name, the more western I have played and recorded together for over 25 years, including busters. Most recent release audacity while on the road this summer. We talked about how we've gotten to this point musically and where do we go from here and very privileged to have in my presence today, a dear friend and master musician bassist buster Williams. How are you busted? Just running lenny. How you doing? My brother? A very vague, very, very good. So I mean busted, it'd be very easy and simple for us to talk about your career, which we probably will time to time go back in and out and all the different accomplishments you. Hey, I'm in your musical history, but I'd like to start by talking about something else today and that is, you've been an educator for a long time and you were at the new school and now you're actually going to take a new position at the new school. When does your semester starts? September in certain. Can you explain what your position at the new school will be? Well, I don't know what the title is yet because I'm a, I'm going to have to ensemble classes. I'm gonna be teaching tools, special, um, classes
Speaker 2:one on a futuristic music one on, uh, the um, like the music of John Coltrane and um, they gave me an office this time I wish I didn't have before. So I'll be interested to see what the title's going to be. Right. And you didn't have private students too and probably students as well. Yeah, it's explained. I mean you, you started teaching how long ago? When I started, had, didn't have a school in Buster Williams school real well. That's something that's in the making. I actually, um, became uh, a New Jersey nonprofit. Uh, uh, in 2013 I started this whole process for the new, for the Buster Williams School of music and um, I actually did three summers of summer courses for the school, which really went very well. A rutgers gave me, um, all the rooms I needed as well as performance space and what they called their black box. They gave me that one summer, another summer. Um, I did it. I did the summer course at a performance space. And Camden, New Jersey. You're from Cameron? From Canada. And you know, I was inspired when I decided to move back down to South Jersey and moved into more devor. He's in New Jersey. How long, how long did you live in New York? I was in New York from my first apartment in New York was in 1965. When was that? In the Bronx Gun Hill road. But before that I lived at the President Hotel on 48th street and Broadway for the eighth and Eighth Avenue. Which was a particular Gig that brought you to New York. Well, yeah, I was with Nancy Wilson. Um, I joined her in 65. I was living at the, uh, uh, Wellington hotel, I believe it was. And I'm also decided to marry my high school sweetheart. And A and Nancy wanted to move her operation out to California where she was in New York when she was in Chicago, but she was in, she was a jazz singer. She was doing jazz clubs and stuff, but she wanted to go into the coconut grove in Los Angeles, the fairmount hotel in San Francisco, Harris and Lake Tahoe and Vegas. So, um, and so she, she became, uh, my, my wife's or my future wife's a maid of honor for the wedding. And as a wedding gift she moved us out to California. And so this was in 65. So then I. So I stayed out in California working with her and during this time I was working with the jazz crusaders. And that's also when I joined Miles Davis, you know, and I was still working with Nancy while I was doing all these other things. Well, I have had that work. You played with miles Davis and also planning with Nancy wasn't because they were very too strong personality. Yeah. That was very interesting. And uh, you know, and you know, Nancy had me on retainer so nancy took off for five weeks and it just happened that I got a call to work with miles Davis for those five weeks. The called him. Herbie Hancock called me. What did you know Herbie Hancock from? I knew Herbie Hancock from 1963. I was with Sara Avant and we went to Europe and the first Gig we played was the anti jazz festival in Nepal. And Miles Davis was also on the festival and his band, they were staying at the same hotel. The band was Herbie Hancock, George Coleman, a Ron Carter and Tony Williams. So that's how I got to know those guys. And we hung out every night, became good friends. So when I got the call from malls, malls had Herbie call me. And, uh, it just so happened that Nancy was taking a five week hiatus and uh, so I went with my house and Nancy continued to pay me. That was really nice. I was really, really nice. And so that was in 67, 67. You get it recovered miles too, right? Yeah, we did a record that we did. We went in the studio and we did actually one tune, we did a water babies or something. Wayne wrote, I forget which one it was, but it came out on the record called directions. Right, right, right, right. I think the team was, I think the team was a content even recorded it twice and recorded it twice here because they had also it. But Ron, it wasn't it. No, no it wasn't. No, it was, um, and it wasn't water babies[inaudible] would have babies with. That was a, it was in three Da de da De da De da De da De da Da da Da da Da. That did a sense of limbo. Limbo. Exactly. Limbo when you showed tune and yeah. So anyway, um, it started to come back to New York in[inaudible], 68 had been out in La and la live in La. Well, I went out there and 65 and I lived actually in La. My first house was in la, then I moved out to Granada hills, San Fernando Valley and captaining in corvette. Yeah. And you know, Sun, Sun, fire, yellow corvette. And um, so my wife and I decided we had enough of California and we wanted to really. I wanted to really get into the New York scene. So came back to New York, uh, November of 68. So I had been out to California since April of 65. And um, so and then uh, uh, we lived again at the Wellington hotel or you came back and said to India and then back to New York and then we got an apartment up on a 97 concentra part. Puck was village and we lived there until we moved up to a brownstone and 87 pounds strivers drivers road now 139th street. When you, for those people that don't live in New York or have never really been to New York, explain what strategies road road, uh, was this special streets. The houses were built by, um, who was this great architect who was actually killed a black architect who was actually killed in a lover's triangle. Really? Yeah. What was his name? Frank Lloyd Wright. And so these, these houses on striver's row 138th street, 130 Ninth Street, um, in Harlem, in Harlem, there was an alleyway between$139, 138th. And I'm, uh, the gates on eats and on 138th street, 139 feet have um, gate numbers. And um, because people use in the gates were big, tall, wrought iron gates. People used to drive their horse carriages through there. And what became garages for cars, where were people parked? Their carriages because every house had and his own carried spot, you know, and a maid's quarters and stuff. These were special houses. And, and it became striver's row because the original habitants of these two blocks were black lawyers. Teachers, you know, academic, academicians, and uh, doctors and financier's when a deterrent strikers, because I mean these were black people striving to get ahead.
Speaker 1:Wow. You actually to strategist row and. Yeah, we did a record together that I produced with you. She went and played piano. Charles Lloyd played Sax and Billy Higgins strivers jewels or something like that. That was great Song Lloyd. Look, Charles Lloyd was on that record. That record was called acoustic master acoustic masters one because you didn't another acoustic masters on Atlantic Atlantic because I had done another record with Ron and Bobby Hutchinson and mogul Craig Handy. So getting back west, I know we're jumping around a bit here, but you know, we had talked about the buster Williams school schooling museum, School of music and sort of Buster Williams School of music that you started in 2013. Two thousand 13. Yeah. 13. Uh, and you had done a bunch of summer courses with that. And so where is that now? I mean, if you went to be a, at the new school, I mean, are you going to bring the Buster Williams School of music to the new school university?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, that's interesting because I'm a, I was trying to make that happen with rutgers, you know, because um, the whole inspiration for the school was what I saw when I moved back to east to South Jersey and I saw all of these budding, you know, music students remind me of when I was there. You know, the music scene was, was, was rife with, with new talent. Yeah. You know, people within real aspiration to become truly great musicians. And um, there's this school in Camden which is an art school and it's the music program is run by this guy who really has been a great spot for these young musicians and, and these musicians, they, they go around the country winning competitions and they, they're asked to, to be part of, of different programs. And a, lots of, you know, they, every summer they go off to either the, um, you know, Christian Mcbride's program, what's with the jazz jazz kids? And they go to all of the different, uh, um, summer courses. Yeah. And these kids, you know, they um, you know, I mean they put in full days, they start 8:00 in the morning, sometimes they don't finish the 11:00 at night and they really aspiring to really play this music and, and you know, their beer, contemporary kids just like every, all these know all over the country, but they really want to know the foundation, you know. So it's the school on hold. No, no. My school on hold. But my school is on hold. I also got involved in that school and I started offering my volunteer services. But for jazz kids. No, no, for the school, uh, the, this, this, uh, middle school was art school in Camden and Kevin and yeah, that's where you're from. Yeah. Yeah. And um, so my school is on a whole. I was, I've been looking for a building to really houses the school, but at the same time, um, it takes up a lot of time to do that. And, and you know, I, I have had not curtailed mine, my traveling performing career, which I don't want to do and um, but I still have, you know, you know, in the back of my mind in the vision and the vision for the school is getting, is even growing, you know. And
Speaker 1:so now your position at the new school, I mean, are you going to bring any of the, I don't want to say you have a curriculum at the buster Williams School of music, but I guess you're going to bring those sensibilities to what it is that you bring to those sensibilities will be involved in anything that I do. Well, how do you feel about academia and jazz?
Speaker 2:That's. See, that's a loaded question and I'm, my true feeling about it is that in no way does it take place of the truth, school of music, the, you know, the music to be truly learned, absorbed with the right attitude of creating a forward movement. Comes from the relationship of mentor, disciple. And I have nothing against, you know, the, the attempt of academia in the schools. My only concern is that the true, the true essence of the music or the true lineage of the music and where the lineage comes from is not lost. So I mean the savings
Speaker 1:that you think that, that happens in most, uh, schools that teach jazz.
Speaker 2:Well I'll, I'll say it this way, um, with the advent of more and more active jazz players or performers actually being in these schools, it lessens that, that inevitability that would, it would be if we weren't there.
Speaker 1:So. So you think that possibly these jazz programs in the schools like Berkeley, Nyu, Manhattan, or juilliard, have taken the role of mentor as opposed to it being an actual physical person.
Speaker 2:We'll say not the school itself, because you know, that all depends on the professor. It all depends on the teacher. You know, now you as an academician at Nyu, Nyu is your platform or your, your place where you provide your mentorship, right. That's the way I look at it. Right? Well, that's the way should be for any teacher who is. That's the way it will be for me. That's the way it should be for any teacher who thinks that way. And, and, and I know that because of the, the, the, the, the heritage of the music and how the music has been passed down or passed on to people of your generation and my generation, um, uh, having live performers who are performing the music night after night after night. Yeah, this, this, this, this relationship between teacher and student is going to be naturally mentor and disciple. But of course, you know, the effectiveness of mental disciple is really not based on the teachers based on the student. That's correct. So we were talking about how you feel about jasmine academia. Now I listen, I believe and um, you know, not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Now I didn't go to a university tonight. I did go to a university, but it was the university, you know, it wasn't in an enclosed, in a building when you studied with the school of and gene emonds and Sonny Sonny Stitt, the school of miles, miles Davis, Betty Carter, Cervan, you know, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, you know Benny Golson. You're very studied. Yes, and you know, you learn different things from each of the schools that you been involved with. Yes. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about what you learned from sunny state as opposed to what you learned from a serve on and you know, there's a, a, a, a line that connects all of these experiences and all of these people together. And what did, what did you, if you look, you notice that, that they all, what they all display is that there is no, um, separateness between the way they live and the way they perform. You know, and I used to always hear, you know, how you learn so much of life's experiences through playing this music. I didn't understand that, you know, until I actually did an. And of course it wasn't something that came to me also clear, you know, it's amazing. You know, how our clear things are becoming at the age of 75.
Speaker 3:You know, I talked to my students all the time and I tell them that life is music and music is life. See if as a professor or as any teacher, you teach things that are in within the four walls of the classroom and the student leaves what it is that you teach them in the and those four walls, classroom. Then that school, if as a professor, you talk to a student and you tell them something about the subject that you're teaching and also applies to life. When you leave the classroom, whatever the teacher spoke to you about, about that particular subject you can take with you outside of those phone calls.
Speaker 2:And it's even more. It's even less and less tangible than that. I mean, it's, it's something that, that becomes part of you. You know, last night we opened and you know, we've been on tour and you, you know, you, you can't take your drums. I can't take my base. And I mean, I, as much as, as I see it as a, as a constructive challenge for me to play these different basis it, you know, um, and, and I, I, when to a certain degree, it all depends on how good a shape I'm in, you know, because I got to make these basis working. I gotta make this fusion between me and the instrument work regardless of the instrument. That's a good point. And that's what it always comes down to. And so, you know, it teaches teaching me more and more of the fusion between and object. That's what it really comes down to. Nevertheless, um, there's, you know, it's not, it's not rare that at the end of the night I go back to the hotel and I feel defeated. I feel defeated because I didn't, I didn't hear what I wanted to hear. I didn't react the way I wanted to react, which means I didn't play what I wanted to play. And you know, it, you know, and it makes doubt set in to a degree. Well, you know, am I losing it? You know, I don't hear the way I used to hear, you know, I'm not as quick, but then last night I got my base in my hand, God and the base said to me, don't worry, I got this and I was playing so much, you know, and I was wondering, I've been back a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, let me ask a question. You would up a real good point because a lot of young musicians and a lot of lay people who listened to music and come to shows and see musicians play. They can't relate to what it is. You said from the standpoint of you having to play a different base every place you go in Europe because you're not able to bring your base and they show up because buster Williams name is on the marquee and they expect buster Williams to be 100 percent every time we see him. So my question to you, given the task every night that you don't have your own instrument, that you become used to it. You have to try to, as you said, fuse between you, the person and whatever instrument that you play. So my question is, is this where the separation between the actual musician and the conceptualist happens? Because as a musician you, yes, of course you can play whatever base it is, but you have to your approach from playing with Herbie Hancock, playing with miles Davis and playing with these different people that thought differently. Explain the concept of being a conceptualist as opposed to just a musician.
Speaker 2:Now that question is the whole reason the ato of what I do and what you do and we could sit here an answer. You know that question for hours because first of all, the one thing that really made me realize how much and why I admired the musicians that I admired was there consistency, you know, and you know and not, and no one feels the same way every day. No one feels the same way everyday. Yet, you know that when it's time to perform, you must perform at your highest level or at the highest level that you can produce at that time. So therefore it makes your, your diligence in practice that much more important because my father used to always come. He says, never let them see you sweat. He said, you want to get to the point where on your worst day you're better than most on your worst day. So you get to a level of professionalism that you know with nobody, you know, is that, oh, you're having a bad day. You don't want you, you never want that to be heard. That's something that you only feel yourself. But you know, like, like Ray Brown, you know, I'd never heard ray brown sound bad and you know, every time I go see Ray Brown, he was one of my mentors. And I say, Oh, you sound beautiful. He says, yeah, fooled them again. So now that's, that's what one, one, one answer to your question. The other is um, um, yeah, so they don't know. And, and it's not okay. Buster Williams is performing tonight, but he doesn't have his instrument. And the instrument that he has really sucks. So when you hear him take this into consideration, that's great. That's not the case, right? They come to here and lenny white because of lenny white and what do they remember? They remember you at your highest point. Oh yeah. He was the great drummer. You know what? Return to forever. I got this record, you know, so you got to perform, you got to perform. So it's a, it's a requirement. It's a responsibility that you have to be ready for and in order to be ready for it you have to really be honest with the obstacles in yourself that you will have to overcome. So this is self development. You think you're learning music, but you're learning self development and you're also learning how to think ahead regardless of what situation you're in. So the point. Great Point. So, so you know, this music that we played all the exists today because of the greatest of the, the, the creativity of our mentors, right? Right. Everybody that plays this music, you know, from the past up to the day playing because they heard somebody but you know, then you talk about well what came first? The chicken or the egg, you know, now we know, you know, that, you know, there was, you know, guys like lead belly, you know, sitting on stoops, you know, playing these two or three wives strings on this thing. They call it a guitar, right? And you know, and, and it didn't have no kind of form that we consider to be a sophisticated form, you know, but somebody rode by and felt good when they, her and her hair and then decided to take a little wire recorder and tape these guys. And so they came from somewhere and it comes from the existence of the people. It comes from the hearts of the people. It comes from the creative mind that, that, that was not created by music but a mine that was created by the struggle to live life. And that's where the music comes from. And so that, that element cannot be lost. That's why the great masters said the first thing, you got to learn how to play the blues, right? Because if your music lose loses that essence, then there's this intangible thing that's not there that I don't care how much you try and label it as jazz and see this jazzy, this thing. Jazz is just a four letter word that has a tremendous connotation regardless of, you know, what we look at the history of the word. Forget about that. You know, we're talking about what this music is and if we lose the essence of what this music is, they were not playing the music anymore. It's our heritage. It's our heritage. That's, that's, that's, that's the phrase that sums it all up. Right? It's our heritage, you know, and so, so each night, regardless of the, the vehicle that I have to produce what I'm supposed to produce with this vehicle, being the base, I had to do it, I got to do it. And that makes it incumbent upon me to continually challenge myself to grow. Right. Okay. You know, I ain't got no problem playing the c seven. You know what? I got a problem playing is me. Right. Let me ask you a question. We just brought up something we talked about the music that we play, which some people categorize as jazz,
Speaker 3:but we think of it as our heritage now in a heritage. The heritage is a line or a link that goes from an origin and continues,
Speaker 2:so it's time without beginning to time without so, so if you and I have presented presenters of our heritage,
Speaker 3:then it's up to us to know about the past, about music so that we can create the future. And so when someone says to you, Oh, you're buster williams, he plays the acoustic bass, but he plays that old school jazz. They don't. They're talking about a style of music. They're not talking about a heritage because they would know that if you listen to him, I hear what it was before I hear what it used to be and what he's playing out. I don't know what that is yet because I've yet to define it. So I want you to talk about your history in this music and your lineage because you were there when the music started to change that you played with Sonny Stitt, gene ammons venue, and the music started to change when you and Herbie Hancock, I think, and it was in one dishy band and all. So I want you to talk about that. Explain how, what it is that you acquired from the masters that had played with before
Speaker 2:helped you conceptualize what you guys came up with. Now, you know, when you really look at it, the greatest thing about innovation is that it was innovation doesn't come about necessarily because you go into a thinking stance, you know, you know, aristotle, Pluto, you know, you know, uh, kind of blue, Jimmy Cobb, Miles Davis, Paul Chambers, John Coltrane went and Kelly, Bill Evans, they went into this cannonball Hadley. They went into the studio just like any other regular day can make a record, right? And they were all thinking, okay, we're going to be here for six hours. Then we, you know, I gotta you know, when I'm going to have for dinner tonight, but what they did was create history. Now we talk about that record because it deserves that, but we talk about that like that's the first time that happened. That happens on a daily basis, on a daily basis. We go up on the bandstand and we talk about what style of music that we play. Well, it depends on the song. It depends upon how we feel and how we feel. Right? Right. Because we've got all of this, you know, like sly and the family stone, you know, or what was the song, uh, uh, something you, all of you live in me is, you know, like that. What was the, with I forget, but we got all of this. We got all. And so now if you want a particular style, well that's stuff that we can call on. We can call on a particular style records for that because record. Yeah, exactly. But you know, if we play a fast uptempo, then that's one style. We play a ballad. That's another style. We had. Another thing that's gotten a little bit back beat, that's another style, right? And we're creating new styles all the time. Exactly right. Because we played something, you know, now there's no way to, to, to distinguish or to, to, to limit, you know, you're, you're, uh, uh, playing, you know, you know, there's, there's, there's no way to limit that into a style because you play something different that's not in that stuff. Exactly. And you creating that style as you. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So, and as you're playing, you're building, you know, and where you in, it's not where you started from, what was the mindset? And it's for those people that don't know the band and the guys in that day. Now, okay, that's another thing to innovation is very seldom created by one person, you know, and uh, uh, usually attributed attributed to one prison. But if it were not for the other people surrounding that, it would've never happened. Exactly right. Glad you say that. So, you know, but then you got mines like miles Davis who knows how to pick the right people or Herbie Hancock, you know, you know, or even Norman Connors who is not such a great player himself, but he knew how to pick the right people to miles was the guy that did well. I met him. He's not the only guy. Of course not. John Coltrane's band was a great thing. This is something, this is something that's also part of the life of the innovator. So now when we got together with herpes band, there was never a discussion, okay, this is what we're going to do and this is what we're going after. We brought individually our individual experiences and we combine these experiences together with each other and let it, let it stew, let it brew, you know, and then we marvel at what we came up with. What years were that, Dan? That band got together in[inaudible] 69, 69 and it stayed together until 73. Then Herbie went on, was in the band. The band initially was a Johnny Coles Gun at Brown, uh, Joe Henderson, Peter Broker, Herbie, and myself. Well, originally it was Ron Carter for at least the first week. Then it was me. You guys were playing at the vanguard. That was the opening of the band here. Shitty. And then, uh, uh, uh, Benny Martin replaced Joe Henderson. Tootie heath replaced Pete Larocca, uh, Julian priester replaced gun at Brown and um, it was just called the Herbie Hancock sex tests at, that's what it always was called. But when did it. I didn't, it was never called. I'll tell you, I'll tell you how I got the MIDC right. And then a woody shaw replaced Johnny Coles. Then a woody shaw went off with Joe Henderson. They did a printed themselves, I would say that you were in that band. That's right. And uh, Eddie Henderson to would show us place. And then a Billy Hart took to these place. The band started becoming a b Corp and she, as a result of our meeting, um, uh, and to May, cooler player who actually exactly, Jimmy he son, and uh, his last name lamb tonight. His name is, uh, um, wasn't he? No. James James. Yeah. Because his father is a piano player or his, his stepfather is a piano player. We Hen Gates in Philadelphia. I forget, I forget his last name though, and I don't know why we called them hen gates because that wasn't really his name, but, um, I'm a m to Mei was aligned with Maulana Ron Karenga, which was the US organization, you know, which was sort of like the counterpart of, of the Black Panthers, but they had their own, you know, um, uh, fights between each other. Um, but, uh, you know, Marlana Ron Karenga, uh, the US organization is where the, you know, the, the seven principles of Kwanzaa came from. And um, so tonight, uh, we're sitting around them too many, gave everybody a name, a Herbie and one day billy what languages? Swahili, Swahili, and Julian priester. Um, and really, uh, I mean, uh, it's a martin and relay, Julian Priester, paypal and toto. Uh, and uh, Eddie Henderson and Ganga, uh, they gave me empty. What does that mean? MTV dodgy means the player and one DC means the composer. And we lay out my means, doctor of good health because I'm really was, was the vegetarian that introduced us all to become vegetarians. Paypal and Toto is moon child and Ganga is the doctor. And Jubala is energy now. You know, I, it gave me a name to which was in Chama. I'm Tomer, which is one who burns. Okay. And remember I was the only guy other than the Herbie Hancock sex tech that was outside of the 6:10 that recorded on Eddie Henderson's realization. Exactly right. It was me and everybody that played on was duke on that too. No, no, but. So I got a little dose of playing with you guys. We'll see you all part of that to you. And Duke and duke good was a part of that, you know. But that's. So then we did this album called dishy and of course then we were him from then on. But uh, we were always the Herbie Hancock second step. We just accepted that Monday she goes, but you guys were legendary for playing one song from an hour and a half. My goodness. We played an introduction for an hour. Right. You know, and so that process in itself had the basic principles of what we just spoke about and see and see. Creativity was accepted in those days, you know, okay. Now, you know, record airplay time, you know, was even accepted a little bit more, you know, because John Coltrane did the same kind of thing, you know, in 1969. Exactly. It wasn't, it was not rare, you know, or for one side of a record to be one or two tunes at the most and or record itself, only have four tools on it. Well this is, was a double album, a double vinyl and it was two sides have to, you know exactly at that time. That was unprecedented for jazz. Yeah. Well and see, and then we all came in after that. Right. You know, with return to forever and with the DC band or opinion. Got sextet. But see, you know, see malls set the pace for that. You know, he didn't wake up one day and had this great idea, okay, I'm going to change. You know, that's just the way he thought because of his upbringing and he came up with the beginning from nothing, just like all of us did, you know, you know, he, he went on this search, he met Bernie, went on his face for bird, but I mean he had lots of experiences, things that shaped him before he had been met. Berg.
Speaker 1:So, so, so I have another question for you. Um, do you think that, what is your take on a society and the things that are going on in society in different periods shaping the music that came out? Well, you know, the symbol when you just talked about that, you spoke about two very influential records that spawned many, many bands and a whole genre of music and musical direction. Well, you spoke about three, she spoke about kind of blue, which was 1959. And then in 1969, which is bruce, bruce, and also in one DC. When you heard bitches brew, what did you think? Oh, but you got to tell the story about the
Speaker 2:baseline. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me go back to, um, uh, the first part of your question which made me think of the renaissance is say because what was, what was the question that you're asking?
Speaker 1:Yes. I talked about society, society, society, they shaped the music. What is the effect of things going on in shaping the music? Feel about that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, so society and the music had never been separate. I've never been separate, you know, it's sorta like, you know, I'm the principal of Asheville Funy in Buddhism, the one that's a person and environment and the person shapes the environment. The environment shapes the person. There's not to, you know, does the environment. And then there's the person that's the, the, the corporation or the inseparability of both the renaissance. The renaissance brought about a certain kind of religious music that also shaped, you know, and was part and a parcel part of the revolutions. Every revolution has the music involved, the civil rights movement, right? John Coltrane's, uh, you know, uh, Alabama, the, uh, the, the, the, the, the poets, what was it, the, um, last last poets, you know, they, you know, rappers need to know about them just like they need to know about Langston Hughes. And they started what was deemed to be exactly, exactly. And that's an Langston Hughes started even before that, right? You know, so, and you see movements in society that coincide with the music that's going on. That's why music is so important because music creates victories, you know, movements that don't have music, have a hard time being victorious. But music shapes victories because music in Boston emboldens the height and music can be, you know, that, that one thing that makes you keep on pushing forward, you know, when sensibilities say no, great point found so, so, so that, that's hasn't stopped and that's what we as musicians must realize. And when you realize that, then you know, it takes away that kind of, that kind of selfish kind of, you know, me kind of attitude. It's a responsibility that we have to humanity. And when you understand that and when you accept that, then your whole thing broadens because your perception broadens and everything is perception. Cigarette point. A lot of musicians, a lot of artists who think that they just want to be successful, they want to be popular. And in those instances they don't accept that property that you just said. Music creates victories. It actually helps people against people effective.
Speaker 1:And if you think that way, if you create that way, it becomes selfless as opposed to a personal thing. It's not a personal journey. It's a journey to uplift all of society because what you do is you create a victory or you create a theme more. And that's an important point.
Speaker 2:Speed. That's something that Duke Ellington understood. That's why I do. Kevin could, could say every night we love you madly, we love you madly because you know you are us. I am you. Right? Right. And that's why he could, you know, the, you know, the drama is a woman, you know, and all of this. All it is great, you know, compositions of his, all these great movements, you know. And See, that's the other thing too, you know, an artist's doesn't just age in years, you know, if, if there hasn't been any kind of changing you, if there hasn't been any kind of of change in your presentation that others can't hear, then you know, you just moved on to know where you know, so now this is not something that you know, you necessarily understand or even need to understand at the beginning, but you need to be opened. You need to be open to what this music really is. This music is not about you. This music is not an entity unto itself, you know, so you're you to sit down and you can tell your students what's going to happen. Right? And they got no vision of that, they had no understanding of that, but for sure it will play out if they find themselves sincere.
Speaker 1:Lenny white here again, and thanks for listening. Stay tuned for new podcasts coming from the IUE universe. For more information, visit our website at[inaudible] dot com. And that's spelled y o u w e Dot Com. See you next time.